deird_lj: (Default)
deird_lj ([personal profile] deird_lj) wrote2008-03-30 05:39 pm
Entry tags:

Making The Talking Sound Like Talking


“She speaks with a strange even-ness and selects her words a shade too precisely.” –Anya, about April


Yes, you too can learn to write more natural-sounding dialogue! Just send your cheque or money-order to [personal profile] deird1, and YOU can become a better writer, RIGHT NOW!

Not going to work? Damn.
Okay, well, in the spirit of general nice-ness, I will give you my Valuable Writing Advice (TM) for free.
Here goes…


Valuable Writing Advice: Making Dialogue Sound Realistic


I’ve read a whole bunch of meta on writing, and nearly all of it mentions that you should make your dialogue sound more natural by “adding in umm’s and oh’s and stuff like that”. Very few people actually take it further and explain this in any more detail.
So I thought I would. After all, I have almost four months of experience writing fanfic. I must be an expert by now, right?

So, without any more stalling,

Piece Of Advice 1: If you (the writer) get something wrong, don’t backspace over it and then type in the correct version. Leave in the mistake, and let your characters correct it mid-sentence.

I first heard this idea on Jane Espenson’s blog, and it is by far the most valuable writing tip I’ve ever come across.

For example – Dawn gets an email. And Xander asks:
“Aren’t you going to reply? Or read it? Or maybe read it and then reply?”

Originally, this was just “Aren’t you going to reply?” until I realised she hadn’t actually read the email at all. And what was a very boring question suddenly started sounding a lot more Xanderish…

Another one:
But finally I just gritted my teeth and went for it. And here’s my first piece of advice: if you’re planning on frenching someone, gritting your teeth is not the best way to start.

I wrote the first sentence, using “gritted my teeth” in a metaphorical sort of way. Then I realised how it sounded.

The thing is, writing takes time and effort. If you’re doing it properly, you should be going over everything you’ve written several times, searching for the perfect words. But if you write dialogue like that, your characters start sounding like… well, like they’ve been going over everything several times, searching for the perfect words.
And that’s not how people talk. Most people will think, at most, one sentence ahead. And they won’t realise how ridiculous something sounds until it’s already left their mouth.

You could, of course, make an exception for job interviews, and other situations where a character will have rehearsed what they’re saying. And then, if they start getting nervous halfway through, they might slip back into self-correcting…

This technique is also helpful in situations where you simply cannot come up with a good way to phrase something.
Like so:
Got it. Real Men Have A Pulse.
Which wasn’t grammatical. And Willow would kill him if she spent hours tutoring him and then he deliberately mixed up singulars and plurals.
Real Men Have Pulses, then. Except that sorta sounds like a bad porn movie.

I couldn’t think of a good way to phrase it, so I put both of them in.
And then there’s this one:
 “Too easy. It was sitting right where they said it would be. Gold case. Velvet lining. Big sign saying The Eye of Oregano – and what kind of nuts name their mystical treasure after a herb, anyway?”
“It wasn’t! It was named after the warrior queen Orega, who destroyed-”
“Whatever. It’s still a crap name.”

The Eye of Oregano really was a crap name. But once I got it in my head, I couldn’t think of anything else. And by inserting my thought process into the mouths of the characters, this conversation suddenly became most people’s favourite part of the fic.

The wonderful thing about this concept is that it frees you from having to be a perfect writer. If you can’t think of how to phrase something well, it’s not because you’re not any good. It’s because your characters are nervous, or uneducated, or possibly going insane…

Other mistakes I’ve left in:
There was a hill, behind the elementary school. It was covered in aspens, or possibly beeches… I don’t know trees. Whatever they were, they were pretty.

Or maybe it was a software problem. Or a hardware problem. One of those problems that meant you had to call the technicians, and they’d fix her computer, and charge her a fortune, and then she could get back her email from the time-frozen Bolivian dimension of digital post guys.

Maybe not fake, but definitely a nightmare. Or, actually, wasn’t that supposed to be the other way round?

Piece Of Advice 2: People will rarely tell you all the necessary information in one hit. Let them stop halfway through, and wait for someone else to ask them for the rest of the story.

For instance, look at what Willow says in this drabble:
The phone rang.
"Hello?"
"Tara! Do you have Fermetum's Grimoire in your dorm?"
It was Willow. Tara blushed, and was very glad Willow couldn't see.
"Um... I'll check. Why do you need it?"
"I accidentally ate four of Buffy's muffins, and there's only one left."
"And..."
"And I didn't want her to come back and be all 'Hey! One muffin!' so I tried a multiplication spell, but it went kinda freaky, and I forgot to check the whole room first."
"Hmm. Well, I'm sorry, but I can't see it anywhere."
"Well... do you know anyone who wants twenty pet rats?"
(found here)

As far as Willow’s concerned, “only one muffin left” is a perfectly good summary of her situation. It doesn’t really occur to her that Tara hasn’t kept up with exactly what’s going on. And the “twenty pet rats” is kind of embarrassing, so she doesn’t mention it until she absolutely has to.

Then there’s this:
She was shredding leaves, one by one, very methodically. She already had a pile of decimated pieces next to her.
“Hey Lissa.”
I sat down beside her.
“Anything wrong?”
“Yes.”
“You want to tell me about it? Or do you want to finish composting the shrubbery?”
“My mom’s back in the hospital.”
She never really talked about it much, but from what I’d picked up her mother had been in and out of the hospital for about five years.
“Oh. I’m sorry.”
And there wasn’t much more to say.

We find out the necessary plot (Tara’s mom is back in the hospital), and because she takes so long to mention it, we get a good clue about her mental state as well.

Piece Of Advice The Third: Sometimes characters will just leave sentences hanging.

Spike is upset:
“There’s just nothing left. And I can’t – There’s just… Nothing.”

And Angel is being cagey:
“No. Paint. We repainted it again after… well, anyway, I like it.”

And… I don’t really have much more to say on that one…

A Fourth Piece Of Advice: People sometimes multitask.

If your characters are sailing a boat, at least a portion of their conversation will be about fish, tying knots, and wind conditions. If they’re trying to outrun an enraged stegosaurus, almost everything they say will be dino-related. And if they’re cooking, you get stuff like this:
“I know she remembers the others – and so do I – but I wanted her to have something real. Can you pass me the chicken?”
“Here.”
“Thanks… A real Christmas. A perfect moment, to look back on. One that did actually happen.”
(from an unposted Joyce/Giles fic, currently un-named)

Especially if they’re uncomfortable having heartfelt discussions, this can be a useful way for them to keep the conversation casual. And it also provides your readers with a handy reminder of what’s actually going on.

Piece Of Advice 5: When people know each other well, they will sometimes see where a conversation is going, and jump forwards.


Like this:
Sophie was sitting cross-legged on his desk. “Who would you say is the hardest worker here?”
“For the last time, no-one thinks you’re slacking off.”
(an out-take from Glowy Green Things)

Or this:
“I brought you some food.”
“Thank you.”
“And there’s a pillow and a blanket set up on the couch in my office, so you can-”
“No.”
“Tru, it’s been fifteen hours.”
“I’m not going to sleep – not until he asks for help.”
(from Morgue)

POA Six: If you have to deliver a whole chunk of exposition, try getting the characters into an argument.

Compare this:
“Team A – that’s you three – goes in first. You have to get the Eye to the centre chamber – that’s ALL. The army is not your responsibility. They will be dealt with by team B – that’s your backup.”

To this:
“So we don’t get to kill any vamps?”
“Of course you can kill some-” Suzanne says, patiently.
“That’s good, cause I’m not leaving them all for our backup. They take down a small army while we prance around with an amulet? No thanks.”
“Jules, there will be plenty of vampires to deal with, after we’ve gotten the amulet to the central chamber. Until then, leave them to the others. Okay?”
“Fine.”

The first one was my original draft. I had to get the information across, and that sentence worked as an exposition dump. But not only was it way too blatant for what I was after, it was also kinda boring.
In the second version, though, the information is still all there. And the readers are still getting it all. But they’re barely going to notice all the exposition that’s going on, because they’re much more focused on the character dynamics revealed by the argument.

Or there’s this:
“Tru, this wasn’t your fault.”
“Wasn’t it? If I hadn’t asked him to help out- I didn’t even think about the danger. I was too busy helping the next dead stranger to- And next thing I know someone stabs him through the neck and dumps him in a parking lot! Well, dammit, it’s not going to end like this! Not this time!”
(from Morgue)

All the relevant plot is included, but the focus is on Tru’s emotional reaction.

And finally, there’s this one:
“Well, there’s not really much competition, is there? I mean, we’re talking about Little Miss Scoobie herself. Miss I-Can-Speak-Five-Languages-Fluently-Yet-Somehow-Feel-Compelled-To-Teach-Myself-Two-More. Research is all well and good, but the girl reads the B’zenti Codex. For fun!”
(an out-take from Glowy Green Things)

I could have just written: Dawn could speak five languages fluently, and was learning two more in her spare time. But this conversation expresses the whole thing as petty jealousy, which puts a whole new slant on things.

Piece Of Advice 7: Take word repetition out of your narration, and put it into your dialogue.

As a general rule, using the same word several times in quick succession is a bad idea. You’ll usually want to rephrase a couple of them so that it seems more natural.
In dialogue, though, repetition can sound very true-to-life – especially when characters are repeating words used by the person they’re talking to.

Like this:
“Oh yes? He goes asteroid spotting and suddenly decides to make himself a girlfriend? What would you call it?”
“He’s not making a girlfriend. He’s – he’s repairing a girlfriend. Totally different.”
“Oh, I’m sorry. He’s repairing a girlfriend. Out of a bunch of parts that could have come from anywhere. And even though every person we’ve met so far has wanted us dead, I’m sure this girlfriend will be perfectly harmless and friendly. You’re right, Lister. I was worried over nothing.”

Or this:
“A shroud that made people crazy.”
“Space monster who ate crazy people.”
“Yeah… that is better. Damn.”

In the second example, Spike originally was going to say “A snot monster from outer space.” But because he phrases his Impressive Mystical Threat in exactly the same way that Angel did, the fact that they’re trying to one-up each other becomes much more clear.

This kind of repetition works very well for emphasising comedy:
The doorbell rang, and Xander’s face brightened.
“That’ll be Spike with the firewood! Finally.”
Buffy’s face brightened too.
“That’ll be Anya with the furniture polish! Finally.”

When word repetition is used by a single person (repeating their own words, rather than someone else’s) it creates the impression of a character without much self-confidence, who is tripping over their own thoughts.

Like this:
If you’re doing the right thing, you’re supposed to know that it’s right. You can just tell. And I know this is the right thing to do.
But I wish I was sure.

Or this:
“Um… hello? We help the hopeless, so, if you need anything – any help – I can… um… help. Help you.”

Witness, by the way, yet another application of POA1 (leaving in mistakes). Angel sounds less and less confident, the further he gets into this sentence, and the more he realises just how many times he’s said “help”. Why? Because that’s exactly what I did.

Point Of Advice Number Eight: People will rarely answer lists in the exact order they heard them.
 
Watch this:
“Firstly, I think movies in space just suck, on principle,” began Lauren. “Secondly, Darth Vader is a ridiculous name for a villain. And thirdly, that gold bikini looked really uncomfortable.”
It was a compelling argument. Nick tried to come up with a good answer. “Well, first – Star Wars isn’t actually set in space for the entire movie. There’s a large portion of it set on planets. Second, Darth Vader sounds really scary to me. And third, that gold bikini was sexy as hell!”

Leaving aside the weirdness of their argument, doesn’t Nick have an impressive memory? He’s got every one of Lauren’s points, in the exact order that she said them, and even though he really wants to enthuse about the gold bikini, he still has enough self-control to discuss the other two issues first.
People just don’t work like that.

Now look at this:
“Spiderman has superpowers!” argues Suzanne. “All Batman has is an entirely lame costume.”
“But he’s the master planner! He can come up with a way to defeat anyone! And his costume isn’t lame.”
“Lamer than Spidey’s.”
“True.”
“And Spiderman wouldn’t give him time to formulate a plan. He’d corner him in an alley, and take him down right there.”

Andrew raises two points:
1) Batman is the master planner.
2) Batman’s costume isn’t lame.
And Suzanne ignores point 1 completely, until she’s settled point 2.

This can be a useful tool for showing what characters really want to focus on. If there are five issues mentioned, and your main character starts by responding to the fourth one, it’s obviously much more important to him than issues one, two, and three.

And finally, Piece Of Advice 9: Leave it to the readers’ imagination.

There is no rule out there that says your story must include every word spoken during every conversation. Feel free to cut in and out of the dialogue, and trust your readers to keep up.

For example, look at this drabble:
“I had this dream.”
Mmm. Dreams. Dreams were wonderful.
“I always enjoy them.” Darla leaned forward, smiling, and slowly traced one finger down Angel’s face.
“-and she smashes open the door to my crypt, and barges in-”
Darla’s hands were under Angel’s shirt, moving with professional skill.
“-hate her! And she’s not exactly ugly, but-”
“Really, darling.” Darla took the phone from his hand. “Must we listen to this twaddle? I’ve got a much better idea.”
This. This was how things should be.
It wasn’t until he woke up that afternoon that Angel realised which petite blonde Spike had meant.

In particular, look at what we actually hear of Spike’s dialogue:
“I had this dream.”
“-and she smashes open the door to my crypt, and barges in-”
“-hate her! And she’s not exactly ugly, but-”

Which is all we need. Especially in this case, because as Buffy fans, we already know what Spike is talking about. Any more of what he’s saying, and we’d get very bored, very quickly.

Or look at this one:
“Dear Lissa,
I have loved our last few years together. But I don’t think…”
And that’s how Maclay broke my heart.

Now, I don’t have a clue how to write a believable break-up letter. So this has just enough to clue the readers in that it is a break-up letter, and then cuts back to the story.

And finally:
“-teach her. Or a red-hot crowbar, right through-”
Angel prided himself on being an understanding sort of person.
“-to pieces with a mallet, until she realises-”
Able to put up with almost any opinion expressed by almost anyone.
“-unless she screams for more.”
But if Spike didn’t-
“-for at least fifteen hours. And then, I’d switch on the-”
If Spike didn’t, pretty soon, stop listing all the hundreds of ways he’d like to painfully torture some common sense into Buffy, Angel would reach the end of his tether.
“-peel it right off again. She just needs to-”
Any second now.

Readers are, at their core, sick sick puppies. They can imagine thousands of possible activities Spike could be devising. Really, any further input on my part would be overkill. And why waste time coming up with realistic ideas when you can just write “peel it right off again” and watch people’s minds turn to mush?


So, there you have it! The entirety of my dialogue-writing knowledge, in nine easy steps. Thanks for reading.

 
snowpuppies: (Default)

[personal profile] snowpuppies 2008-03-30 07:40 am (UTC)(link)
Wow. You put a lot of thought into this!

I'm not so much with the thinky when I'm writing dialogue. I'm more with the having-entire-conversations-in-my-head-and-no-I'm-not-crazy-why-do-you-ask when I write. *g*

Nevertheless, I'm uberimpressed with your mad thinky skills and mebbe if I ever decide to try thinking, I might make use of your well-thought-out-ness. *g*
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-30 08:25 am (UTC)(link)
I think I've only thought so much about this because I have to. Writing dialogue isn't one of the bits I find easy, so unless I work on it quite a bit I tend to be unhappy with the result.

Glad I managed to impress you!

[identity profile] dreamincolor.livejournal.com 2008-03-30 07:48 am (UTC)(link)
That was actually amazingly helpful.

Not that I didn't expect it to be, I just..dunno..thought I was awesome and knew all there was to know about dialogue, cause I'm vain like that.

The dialogue in your fics is always very funny and well done, guess now I know a bit more why. That leaving your mistakes thing in especially has resulted in some genius dialogue, especially in "When I Get a Car" and "Dial N For Nancy-Boy".

Thanks for sharing!
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-30 08:28 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

(Honey, you're awesome, and you know a heck of a lot about dialogue...)

That leaving-in-mistakes thing has been so helpful! One day I'm going to write a post about all the things I've learnt by eavesdropping on Mutant Enemy writers, and that one will be top of the list.
ext_150: (Default)

[identity profile] kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 07:10 am (UTC)(link)
Here via metafandom.

Great post! I wish I read Buffy fic, because I really love the examples you've given. XD
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 08:07 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

(All people should read Buffy fic. It's like a rule...)
juniperphoenix: Fire in the shape of a bird (Default)

[personal profile] juniperphoenix 2008-03-31 06:57 pm (UTC)(link)
This is great advice! *adds to memories*
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 07:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks!
ext_2353: amanda tapping, chris judge, end of an era (btvs dawn)

[identity profile] scrollgirl.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 07:11 pm (UTC)(link)
This was an awesome post. I don't write much these days but I love reading about how to write. Great advice!
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 07:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

here via metafandom

[identity profile] mmoneurere.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 07:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Most of all, remember that actual dialogue, when written down, generally doesn't read well. This is even true on stage and in film -- it's important to produce the sense of natural dialogue, not a transcript.

And the standard rule for writing: treating anything as a rule rather than a principle will cause issues down the line. Most of the examples in this post, for instance, will tend to produce dialogue in the conversational style of the writer (or rather, in the style of how the writer would be written as a fictional character). Too much of this, and the characters all start to sound alike, even when the content of their speech is distinct.
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

Re: here via metafandom

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 07:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Very good points!

treating anything as a rule rather than a principle will cause issues down the line.
Certainly, most of the stuff I've been saying should be used in smallish quantities. They're mostly there to add "flavour" to conversation that sounds too stilted. And you're right - using them too much will make the characters sound ridiculous...

Re: here via metafandom

[personal profile] deird1 - 2008-03-31 20:46 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] kabal42.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 07:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Here by way of metafandom.

Great essay, this. I think you've included a lot of points I've never heard or consciously thought of before. I realised as I read through it, that I do some of this already :-) I'll definitely be trying a few more of your tips.
(And convince beta readers et al that mistakes are fine when they're deliberate! *G*)
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 08:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee! I can just see you trying to talk to your beta:
"No, really - I left out half of the conversation deliberately! And using word repetition provides character insight! It's artistic!"
"Uh-huh. Artistic. Riiight..."

[identity profile] melaniedavidson.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 08:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Oooooooo. I'm bookmarking this.
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 08:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Ooh yay! I've been bookmarked!

Glad you enjoyed this.

[identity profile] firefly-124.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 08:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Excellent advice! Dialogue is one of the things I really struggle with, so this is definitely getting put in memories for future reference.
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 08:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm glad you found it helpful!

[identity profile] measi.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 08:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Excellent post for suggestions to improve. :)

The hard and fast rule I always use for dialogue is - if you speak your writing outloud, does it sound like said character is speaking? (accents aside, of course)

deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
if you speak your writing outloud, does it sound like said character is speaking?
Definitely the most important thing to think about. (But a lot harder to fill an entire LJ post with...)

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[personal profile] deird1 - 2008-03-31 21:10 (UTC) - Expand
ext_2932: (Penguins)

[identity profile] lothy.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)

This is really interesting, and I say this as someone who doesn't often read meta about writing. Some of those things I think I do naturally without thinking about them, but others... I love the suggestion of leaving in your own confused mistakes.

Thanks for writing!
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 08:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm glad you enjoyed it!

That mistakes thing is seriously the most helpful thing I've ever used for ficcage.

Thanks for reading!
pensnest: bright-eyed baby me (flawless)

[personal profile] pensnest 2008-03-31 09:13 pm (UTC)(link)
This is Good Stuff! I shall recommend it to all my beta-ees.
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 09:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, thank you!

[identity profile] doomette.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 10:20 pm (UTC)(link)
This is excellent. I'm always really bad at writing dialogue - I re-write it so many times that...it just doesn't sound natural. But there are fantastic tips in here! *bookmarks page*
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-03-31 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks!
snorkackcatcher: (Default)

[personal profile] snorkackcatcher 2008-03-31 11:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow. Sensible practical advice in a meta-post! I like it. :)
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-01 12:40 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks!
ext_9369: mine - please don't take (Default)

[identity profile] auroraprimavera.livejournal.com 2008-03-31 11:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh this is just awesome! You've helped me figure out a few problems I have with my writing and how to work around them. Thanks for putting the time into this. :)
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-01 12:41 am (UTC)(link)
I'm glad you found it helpful!

[identity profile] ohyamada.livejournal.com 2008-04-01 06:22 am (UTC)(link)
(Here via [livejournal.com profile] su_herald!)

Oh, wow. I have so much problems writing believable dialogue, that I usually don't even bother - it always sounds too stilted and unnatural. This is really helpful, thank you for writing it out! :)
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-01 06:53 am (UTC)(link)
I'm glad you found it helpful!

[identity profile] grey-hunter.livejournal.com 2008-04-01 01:22 pm (UTC)(link)
oooh! Useful! I needed to rewrite a dialogue and didn't know how to go about it. Now... I still don't know but at least you gave me a few ideas... tee-hee! (oh, I came here via someone's rec, I just don't remember who... er.)
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-01 06:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

[identity profile] boogieshoes.livejournal.com 2008-04-01 01:53 pm (UTC)(link)
here via metafandom. i'm mem'ing this, as dialogue happens to be one of my personal bugaboos.

-bs
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-01 06:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm glad you found it helpful!

[identity profile] shadowvalkyrie.livejournal.com 2008-04-01 08:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Very helpful! Thank you for sharing!
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-01 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for reading!

[identity profile] fadewiththesong.livejournal.com 2008-04-02 03:16 am (UTC)(link)
I usually don't have a problem writing dialogue, but I'll definitely look into this the next time I write some. Good advice. Thanks for writing this! *Adds to memories*
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-02 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
I'm glad you found it helpful!

[identity profile] ephemera.livejournal.com 2008-04-02 02:45 pm (UTC)(link)
nearly all of it mentions that you should make your dialogue sound more natural by “adding in umm’s and oh’s and stuff like that” - I've never seen that line in quite that form, but as it's clearly out there, this is an excellent antidote. My favourite bit of dialogue advice is to *read it out loud* which tends to show up when things just don't sound like anything a human being would say, but you have some excellent points about the interaction of dialogue and characterisation. (and I *heart* writhing chatty first person, where you can use that self-correcting thing; it's fun)

*adds to bookmarks*
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-02 08:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you!

here from metafandom

[identity profile] dharma-slut.livejournal.com 2008-04-02 09:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow!

I've tried to explain some of these things-- notably the "dialogue as exposition" and "repetition is dialogue" and you've nailed them.

I'd like to link to this from an erotica forum I hang out at, and I'd also like to quote you in my own guide to writing fiction-- would you be okay with that? With links, of course!
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

Re: here from metafandom

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-02 10:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

Linkage is always welcome...
lyr: (Rodneywow: maryavatar)

[personal profile] lyr 2008-04-04 03:52 am (UTC)(link)
Excellent list of good points, and all well explained, too!
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-04 03:55 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

[identity profile] nakeisha.livejournal.com 2008-04-04 12:59 pm (UTC)(link)
This is very interesting and I found myself nodding along at a lot of these points.

One of your tips really made me laugh out loud though (not because of you, please don't take offense, I'll explain). It is this one:

Piece Of Advice 2: People will rarely tell you all the necessary information in one hit. Let them stop halfway through, and wait for someone else to ask them for the rest of the story.

This is just so not true for one half of my main pairing. Not only does he give you ALL the necessary information in one hit, he'll give you far more than just the necessary information. (So he's one of the 'rare' ones'. But it did make me chuckle when I read it - but as I say, please don't take offense.

So of course the real over-riding piece of advice before employing any of these excellent tips or indeed any other tips is 'Know thy character'.

Thank you for sharing.
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-04 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
So of course the real over-riding piece of advice before employing any of these excellent tips or indeed any other tips is 'Know thy character'.

Absolutely! There's pretty much nothing as important as that one.


I'm glad you enjoyed this!

[identity profile] firefly99.livejournal.com 2008-04-09 01:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Hi, I'm here via [livejournal.com profile] metafandom.

This is marvellous. The examples, the content, the advice - everything. I've been having a crisis of confidence with my writing lately, mostly centred around my (lack of) ability to write convincing dialogue (not that that stopped the writers of my primary fandom at all, but 'the canon sucks' is never an excuse), so I'm very happy to have stumbled upon all this well-done and intelligent advice.

Thank you!
deird1: Fred looking pretty and thoughful (Default)

[personal profile] deird1 2008-04-09 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks! I'm glad you found it so helpful.

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