Incesty Pairings

[deird_lj]

So, I come bearing pollage.

I've seen a lot of conversations about fanfic recently, in which people have discussed different pairings and said "That pairing squicks me out. It's... almost incestuous."

And I was wondering which pairings are most likely to strike people that way.


So, under the cut is a poll, full of pairings!
Rate each pairing from 1 (not incestuous in the slightest) to 10 (really really incestuous and squicky).




[Poll #1524132]


Questions? Comments?

Comments

[next_to_normal]

Whereas Cordelia/Connor squicks me just as bad, but mostly because of the age difference

Huh. They're only like, 3 years apart - Connor's 18 and Cordy's probably 21. The thing that squicks me about them is that even though they're not actually related, there's a big level of emotional incest, because Cordelia played a motherly role to him and was in love with his dad.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Word

[next_to_normal]

I keep changing my answers, lol. Actual incest is obvious, but when you get into familial-type relationships, where they're not actually related, I get indecisive, lol.

Sometimes that's really easy to determine - Buffy/Giles is obviously father/daughterish in nature. But others are more complicated, particularly pseudo-sibling relationships, since there's a fine line between "he's like a brother to me" and "he's a really good friend" (which could someday be more than that). Like, I can see Xander as a big brother to Dawn, but canonically she's had a crush on him, so clearly she hasn't always seen him as a big brother. On the other hand, Willow/Dawn and Tara/Dawn were both motherly relationships, actually living in the house and taking care of Dawn, so they squick me more.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

I had a hard time separating true, physical incest from emotional incest and just plain squicky (or impossible - see Ben/Glory, Fred/Illyria, etc). I think I only gave 10's to the truly incestuous, but I probably included at least one emotionally incestuous one there. I tried to confine my squicks to the 7 or 8 range. Spike and Dawn squicks me as a concept, although I have read a few very good, very believable dark fics in which it works. Still squicks me, but I could read it because it was so real. Older Dawn and Spike somewhere down the line - yeah, I could see that. Rather not, but I can. I think I even wrote a drabble once that implies it. Spike/Joyce falls into the same category as Giles/Willow/Xander stuff. Not remotely interested in it, and it isn't the relationship they had in canon, but it doesn't particularly make me shudder.
Oddly enough (in light of comments I didn't see till after I voted), the whole vampire family thing being incestuous didn't occur to me at all. In canon, the sires do have sexual relationships with their offspring. It's part of the package. So I didn't see those as incestuous at all. Hmmmmm

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Adding another squicky, incesty pairing: Lindsey/Connor. Lindsey was in love with Connor's mother, man-I just cannot read that. *shudders*

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Oh wow. I never thought of that.

Hmmmmm.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Referring to your lover as "Daddy" is creepy enough

How about "Papa"?

(Sorry. It's this weird set of references including Preston Sturges and a taxi driver in New Orleans...don't ask.)

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Thing is that something like Angel/Connor is very obviously straight up incest - and yet it's a pairing I have read, despite the obvious squick, because their relationship is messed up enough to go there. Joyce/Buffy on the other hand is just *wrong*.

Yes, this. Exactly.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

It's more to do with power relationships and manipulation than fear of inbreeding

This is definitely it for me. Squickiness remains even when the parties aren't related when the power balance is too uneven. Therefore, Xander/Dawn when she's in high school is Not Good At All, but when she's a confident young woman, Do Whatchoo Wanna Do. I struggled with the Giles/Faith combo, because it really depends on when. brutti_ma_buoni has made me a believer in post-Chosen Faith/Giles, but if he had hit on her when she first showed up (or vice versa, more likely), that would have been Not Good.

[mabus101.livejournal.com]

In all honesty, I find the power relationship squick...strange. (Which is not to say I advocate it...just that I find it unsquicky.) To make a probably unhelpful analogy--Xander/Faith is physically a power imbalance; we know for a fact that she's capable of holding him down and having her way with him, if she wants. But as far as I know, most people are unsquicked by the earlier scene between the two in "The Zeppo". Likewise, legal status aside for the moment, the mere existence of a social power differential between two lovers leaves me unbothered; there would have to be something like orders given before I would be disturbed by it.

Can I see the difficulty from a legal standpoint? I suppose. But it's something that would never have occurred to me on my own.

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

Somehow Holtz/Connor is the only one that made me 'ew' aloud. That may be a reflection of how I see Holtz generally.

Another vote for the cross-generational squick, at least where someone's been in a paternal/responsible role: Giles/Buffy squicks the hell out of me. Giles/Faith I lap up, drooling in a ladylike way. It's not about age per se.

[deird1]

You have two identical Buffy/Wesley questions.

Yeah, I realised too late. It was supposed to be Buffy/Faith... *facepalm*


Finally, I'm a little surprised that you don't seem to have noticed my latest fic about Illyria, especially since it's at Still Grr. Apologies if you have just been too busy to read or comment; I mention it because I thought you would find it interesting.

I tend to read Still Grrr in one big rush while tagging. Right now, I'm still back at the start of the prompt. :)

[deird1]

I know! So horrifying!

[deird1]

What about the most overtly canon incest pairing of them all, Angel(us)/Drusilla?

*facepalm* Forgot it, along with Buffy/Faith. I meant to put them both in...


I can see the Robin/Faith thing (...which is why I included it, after all). I'm surprised more people don't.


I remember I once had a very long discussion with an idiot who was adamant that Buffy/Joyce, Buffy/Dawn and Dawn/Joyce wasn't incest because it was all women and therefore beautiful whereas incest was just for sickos who want to read about men raping their daughters.

Well that's... special. *backs away slowly*

[deird1]

Yep. I know I'm always off having sex with my sisters. Uh-huh. Nothing weird and squicky about that, nosiree...

[deird1]

Yes! I am silly! It was supposed to be Buffy/Faith. :(

[deird1]

I think Connor/Justine is potentially incest-squicky, given that Justine was planning on adopting him...

[deird1]

Agreed - but I'd still describe Buffy/Giles and Dawn/Tara as "pretty much incest". There's a definite parent/child thing there, not just cross-generational.

[deird1]

I accidentally left out Buffy/Faith, when that's half the reason I came up with the poll!
*facepalms*
I was going to find out how many people (apart from you) find that one incesty...

[deird1]

Interestingly, Connor/Cordelia doesn't squick me at all...

[deird1]

Agreed, on all points.

[deird1]

Eek. *shudders* I don't think I've ever seen that one.

[deird1]

I think I agree with you. :)

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

rofl! I wouldn't be surprised to find I'm alone on that one.

[obiwahn.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting that people are more grossed out by Buffy/Giles than Dawn/Xander. I can't help but think it's just because Dawn/Xander have been made canon. Personally Xander/Dawn creeps me out ALOT - especially since I'm currently watching season 5 again, and Xander babysits her, has childish nicknames for her, and so on. While I don't find Buffy/Giles appealing either, it isn't as gross to me, because he is never shown infantilizing her the way Xander did toward Dawn.

At the end of the day though, incest is something that happens between blood relations. I kind of get annoyed by the whole "that's incest!" thing. It can be creepy for a number of reasons, sure. But it's not incest.

ETA: I also think it's interesting that people say they need equal power dynamics. A lot of eroticism comes from an inequality in power dynamics.

Even in the more "vanilla" of pairings - Angel/Buffy (just my opinion) where is the equality between 200 year old Angel and a 17 year old Buffy?