He's Really Not All That Bad

[deird_lj]

You know, I think Giles has a bit of an undeserved reputation.


(By the way, I did actually mean that spoiler warning, so gabrielleabelle, if you're still reading, for goodness' sake STOP.)

Specifically, I'm thinking about the scene in Shells, when Angel rings Giles for help, and Giles refuses.

As a reminder: Fred has died, Illyria has emerged, and Angel, reasoning that "the soul is what matters", tries to contact Willow for help bringing Fred back. And Giles tells him that Willow is currently unable to be contacted, and refuses to help Angel at all, because Angel's still working at Wolfram & Hart.

I've seen a lot of discussion, both fic and meta, of this scene, and almost invariably, people tend to assume that Giles was being presumptuous, and he shouldn't have dismissed Angel out of hand.
And then they decide that, clearly, Willow (and Buffy) would be really annoyed with Giles for doing that (and for behaving just like he did in Lies My Parents Told Me) because, obviously, Fred was lovely and they would definitely have helped her, had Giles just let them know...

I think I disagree.

The thing is, Fred is dead. Very definitely dead.
And I really don't see Willow - season seven Willow - trying to reverse someone's death. Not after the whole pulling-Buffy-out-of-heaven, losing-her-girlfriend-horribly, and-oh-by-the-way-almost-destroying-the-world thing. She just wouldn't.
Sure, she'd be sad (possibly very sad) that Fred had died, but she wouldn't try to bring Fred back. She's done that before.

And Buffy?
Buffy had, not five episodes earlier, sent Andrew in with a squadron of Slayers to back him up, and made it perfectly clear that, while Angel was at Wolfram & Hart, she really didn't trust him.

Giles might have been giving his own opinion, he might have had Buffy right there beside him dictating his every word, he might have been lying about Willow being unreachable... I really don't know. It's possible that he didn't discuss the situation with anyone before turning Angel down. What I don't agree with is the idea that Giles was responding any differently to the way the others would have. Not definitely, anyway.

So, yeah. I think he's getting unfairly blamed for that one.
Just an opinion.

Comments

[dreamincolor.livejournal.com]

I wonder if it was all to do with Wolfram and Hart, the hell no response, or if Giles/Buffy/who ever was there had their suspicions played up by the whole Angel-was-evil-before thing. I wonder, if Cordelia (who was obviously dead and couldn't have, but we'll pretend for argument's sake that she wasn’t) had called sobbing to say that her friend’s soul needs to be found, because it was lost, maybe forever if they didn't try something, and for God sakes just put Willow on the damn line, if it might have worked. Or maybe even, if Cordelia had played it smart and asked to talk to Xander, who she could surely convince with the whole Harris-you're-an-ass-but-help-me-this-once, it’s-my-friend’s-soul-on-the-line, who could surely convince Willow, his bestest buddy of forever and then some, to at least give it a try..

None of the scoobies are crazy about Cordelia, but I think she might have had more luck. That is, if she hadn't been..you know, dead. Which kind of negates the whole argument. But still.

I’m willing to bet the Angel-was-evil-and-killed-Giles-girlfriend-once scenario probably played in at least a little, especially if Giles was the only one in the room. Which makes me think that just about any one of the AI crew would have had more luck calling than Angel..

Ooo..or Spike. Definitely Spike. That’s a whole ‘nother idea.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I do think a grief stricken Wesley may have had more success.

[deird1]

Good point. I'm sure the fact that it was Angel didn't help matters - especially with Giles answering the phone.

Have you read beer_good_foamy's fic Recurring? It sort of uses that idea...

[dreamincolor.livejournal.com]

Mmm..no, I haven't. -clicky- Thank ya for the rec.

N' I think shipperx was right too, Wesley might have had more luck.. I'd kind of forgotten about his connection with the scoobies, and I'm not sure why..

[skipp-of-ark.livejournal.com]

About the Cordelia scenario...I dunno. I know a lot of fans just assume that Cordelia can just boss Xander around whenever she wants, but consider: A) we don't know that Xander we would have been available for Giles to hand the phone to; B) the previous four seasons of television had demonstrated that neither Cordelia nor Xander had kept in contact with each other or maintained any kind of post-high school relationship whatsoever; and C) this was less than a year after Anya had died, and Xander was probably still grieving for her. Assuming that Cordelia would have been able to tell Xander, whom she'd not had any contact with in more than four years, to persuade Willow to help resurrect Cordelia's newly deceased friend while he's still grieving for his ex-fiance, is, IMO, dangerously assuming that Xander wouldn't have told her quietly to fuck herself (or words to that effect).

[deird1]

I actually think that Cordy probably would have a better chance going straight to Buffy...