Enemies In Love

[deird_lj]

I think I've figured out why I love the Spuffy relationship so much more than I like Buffy/Angel.

And it's quite simple, really, because it's the same reason that I like almost all the couples I'm madly shippy about.

One's good, one's evil, and they're in love anyway.

It seems to be a fool-proof way of making me like a couple: put them on opposite sides, and then have them fall in love.
And that's definitely got to be the main reason I'm into Spuffy, because if you look at most of the other couples I like, they all fit the same pattern:

Darla/Angel - She's evil, he's good, and they just can't help themselves.

Wes/Lilah - Same deal.

And then there's Elizabeth/Darcy, Tru/Jack, Buffy/Faith, Angel/Lindsey, Wes/Illyria, Lilah/just-about-anyone... even Mal/Inara fits the pattern. Sure, they're not a straight good/evil pair, but they are very clearly on opposite sides - and they're still in love.

And as much as I liked Buffy/Angel, it was basically a good person in love with a reformed person. Which is fine - but not nearly as interesting as a good person in love with someone who's flat out evil.
The Buffy/Spike relationship, on the other hand, is insane. People just aren't supposed to fall in love with their arch-nemesis. Spike is horrified when he realises he's falling for Buffy, she's horrified in return, they both know how ridiculously stupid a relationship would be... and yet...

This is why, as much as I go nuts for Wes/Fred, I'm even more nuts about Wes/Lilah - and downright thrilled when Illyria comes along, because suddenly the relatively straightforward Wes/Fred relationship gets turned into another good/evil pairing. It's awesome!

This also applies from a friendship point of view. As much as I enjoy Crichton and D'Argo as friends, their friendship is nothing compared to Crichton/Scorpius. Ditto with the Doctor/the Master, House/Wilson, and, mostly inside my own head, Spike/Angel.
I just love it when two people are working from such completely opposing perspectives, and yet they keep being friends, because when it comes down to it, they can't not be.

This is why my version of Tru Calling will always include a very twisted Tru/Jack relationship, why I rewatch that phonecall between the Doctor and the Master again and again, and why my absolute favourite moment in the whole of Angel is Wes growling "He's necessary - for fighting people like you," and then wrestling Lilah to the floor...

*happy sigh of shippiness*

Questions? Comments?

Comments

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

*I have no Spuffy icons. Alas*

I wonder if that's a variation on the "love-hate" or "opposites attract" dynamic there. Obviously, it's taken to an extreme with having the partners being out-and-out enemies, but I definitely see the pattern in your preferences. :)

I've considered often why I do like Spuffy. I really don't ship much at all. Anywhere. In any fandom. The only other shipper card I carry is Xena/Gabrielle. So I guess I'm just not that kinda of fan.

And I obviously don't think Buffy/Spike is tru wuv forevah!!! or any nonsense like that.

But I adore it because it's interesting and unlike any other couple I've ever seen. It goes through so many stages. From out-and-out enemies pre-S4 to a forced truce in S4. Then S5, there's a beautiful arc with Spike trying to prove his devotion to Buffy despite being a monster, and her eventual acceptance of his help. S6, though, with it's gender role reversal in having Buffy being the instigator and aggressor (and abusive party) in the relationship while Spike is the enabler is absolutely fascinating to me...despite being upsetting.

But I think it's the final stage of their relationship in S7. When they've been through everything else, and they know one another completely and still accept and love each other. They support one another and give each other comfort. If their relationship had started out like that, I'd be bored to tears. But they earned it through everything they went through before, so I love it.

My, I went on for a bit, didn't I? tl;dr: Spuffy is different, dynamic, and interesting. That's why I love it. :)

From Laney

[(Anonymous)]

To what does 'Fuffy' refer?

I can't remember who D'Argo or Scorpius are...

WHICH PHONECALL?!?!?!? Did I miss something?

[mauvedragon.livejournal.com]

I like fictional bad boys more consistently in fandom than other male characters. Angel as a character generally bores me. He stays too angsty.

I must admit I like Spike/Buffy (the blend of the names just makes me wince) because of the kinky undertone of violence in the whole dyanamic. Also that first sex scene totally rocks.

I like Wes/Lilah but that's more to do with what Lilah is like than Wes.

[neutralalienist.livejournal.com]

I think it comes down to the fact that conflict is more interesting, and a divide like that is a very easy way to have it. It's also a wonderful way to explore the two characters - their morals, their indecision, all of that delicious inner conflict. (Well, in this case, Buffy's morals and Spike's bewilderment and frustration.)

I liked Buffy/Angel well enough on the show, and I felt for them, but I was never very invested - because they seemed more in love with the idea of each other, and while their connection was very deep, it wasn't very identifiable. (And, in the long run, I think she was far better for him than he ever was for her.) I'd be more interested in them now, I think, after both having grown apart from each other, into more mature people. At the time, Angel frankly didn't have as much of a personality.

Epic romance and soul mates and all doesn't really interest me, as much as, well, people, and you get that more in enemy ships too, I think.

My favourite sorts of ships are friends turned enemies - Doctor/Master, yes, and Dumbledore/Grindelwald, and Xavier/Magneto. When there's still a lingering fondness, an old respect, that they can't quite rid themselves of, even as they fight brutally. Of course this will vary with just how different they are, and how mentally stable. (Hi, Master.) And Angel/Spike, sort of! Although that ship had to go through a lot of changes as we learned more about their history.

...That was a bit long, wasn't it. > >

[lavastar.livejournal.com]

I wonder how this fits in with your Dawn/Andrew thing. I suppose they are rather opposite-y, if not exactly enemies. ^-^

I do pretty much agree with this. It works for the Spuffy pwns Bangel argument.

But at the same time, I'm a really big Willow/Tara shipper, and opposites? Enemies? Not so much.

[dreamincolor.livejournal.com]

It seems to be a fool-proof way of making me like a couple: put them on opposite sides, and then have them fall in love.

With you all the way.

And at first I always start thinking that our generation is just crazy, but then I realize that it seems to be an age-old trick.. Even Romeo and Juliet had the opposite-sides thing going, if not in a slightly different way. It's a dynamic that's just too good to resist!


And that's definitely got to be the main reason I'm into Spuffy,

Spuffy seems to be one of the few ships that gets almost as much attention in fandom as it did in canon, if not more so. And although I was never crazy about it myself - for whatever reason Spike's romanticism just irks me..I fail at being romantic - I can completely see why. They're the epitome of 'one's good, one's evil, and they're in love anyway.' Definitely one of Joss's better moves fan-wise.


Wes/Lilah...Buffy/Faith, Angel/Lindsey, Wes/Illyria, Lilah/just-about-anyone...even Mal/Inara

Yes, yes, and more yes. Are we shippy soul-mates? (Especially the Lilah/anyone.. Not like I would ever invent strange, non-canon Lilah relationships..nooope.. -cough- LilahCordy,LilahFred -cough-)


This also applies from a friendship point of view. House/Wilson, and, mostly inside my own head, Spike/Angel.

Heck yes to both.


my absolute favourite moment in the whole of Angel is Wes growling "He's necessary - for fighting people like you," and then wrestling Lilah to the floor...

-Purrs loudly and sighs happily-

[dreamincolor.livejournal.com]

I became interested in the moment they start snarking at each other while he was chained in a bathtub. And it just sort of continued from there - what with stealing underwear, and face punching, and the fact that, even in season 7, they can't have an awfully romantic night without yelling at each other about it the next day.

Now that aspect of Spuffy I really can enjoy - snarky fun. It's just the Spike following Buffy around like a lost puppy that gives me a case of the eye-rolls..


Assuming we mean the same thing by "romantic", that's the main reason I'm not very interested in Buffy/Angel. They just keep getting all serious and passionate...

Yes. It was all very heart-warming and such..but it's just not that interesting. Which is strange, because it was never that way with Willow/Tara, who somehow managed to be heartwarming and interesting..

Though I suppose Willow and Tara weren't both perfect-bodied superheroes who save the day single-handedly on a frequent basis, which made the Willow/Tara relationship feel more real. Season one and two of Buffy, Angel was just so..well, I always felt like his character was much flatter then than it was by the time he was in LA. (Cordy/Angel snark for the win. -dodges flames-)


Nope. Never. And I'd certainly never read such weird ideas... over and over again... Nosiree.

Of course not. Who do people take us for? Yeesh.

[shapinglight]

Londo and G'Kar from Babylon 5?

Boy, you'd love that relationship.