What could have been...
Aug. 9th, 2009 03:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
deird_lj(I realise I keep going on about this, but it’s bugging me…)
I’ve decided that one of the main problems with Torchwood is that it’s trying to be Angel, when it should be trying to be Going Postal.
In an episode of Doctor Who called The Empty Child, Steven Moffat created this wonderful new character. He was a con-man, who used to work for the Time Agency, until he woke up one morning and found that they’d stolen two years of his memory.
…that’s a pretty decent starting point for a character, really.
You’ve got a fun angle, with someone who’s basically out for himself, an intriguing history, and the possibility that he might become a hero.
And then Russell T Davis decided he wanted to make a spin-off show.
In fact, he basically wanted to make his very own version of Angel.
And instead of using this ready-made character he had (con-man, time agent, memory stolen), he wanted a different backstory. A more angsty and heroic backstory.
So he took Jack Harkness and gave him another century worth of story (can’t die, stuck on the planet, lost his brother).
And then he put Jack in the middle of Torchwood, and let him be heroic and angsty.
The problem is, it doesn’t really work.
On Angel, we had a character we’d known for three years, whose backstory we’d known for three years, starting a detective agency (and not being all that good at it, to start with), with a crew who initially didn’t trust him, and tended to argue when he made bad decisions.
On Torchwood, we had a character we’d known for five episodes, whose backstory had completely changed, already having run his own Cardiff-based branch of Torchwood for several years, with a crew who knew nothing about him, and yet still (for some reason) went along with every decision he made, even when he gave them no explanation whatsoever. And the few times they tried going against him, they were consistently proven to be wrong (because Jack is always right).
Angel was dark and brooding because he’d spent 150 years horribly slaughtering people.
Jack was dark and angsty because he… couldn’t die. And that was upsetting.
Angel’s crew were great at their job because they never gave up, and they kept fighting even when everyone around them (the police, ordinary people, evil lawyers, ex-girlfriends) was against them.
Jack’s crew were great at their job because they had super-cool gadgets, and if anyone tried to go up against them, they’d flash their TORCHWOOD badges at the police, and wipe the memories of the rest.
Plus, we didn’t get to see Jack change, from con-man to hero. We were just told that he had. And were supposed to take the show’s word for it that he had, and was now clearly heroic and wise.
It didn’t really work all that well.
Which is a pity, really, because the show had so much potential.
What it should have done, instead of trying to be Angel, was try to be Going Postal.
Going Postal is a Discworld novel.
It stars a rather charming con-man (sound familiar?) who is put in charge of the postal service, and told (on pain of lots of pain and then possibly death) to get it running again.
It’s rather fun.
And it occurred to me today that, really, they had the potential to create this brilliant show.
A show that people wouldn’t roll their eyes at and say, “Well, that’s just Torchwood. At least it’s kind of fun, right?”
At the end of Doctor Who season 1, Jack is altered so that he can’t die, and left in space, several millennia away from the present day. (He then jumps to present-day Earth – landing 100 years before he planned to – in the hopes of finding the Doctor again.)
At the end of Doctor Who season 2, the Torchwood Institute almost accidentally ends the world – and then is destroyed.
Five episodes into season 1, there’s a doctor (Dr Sato) who examines the “alien” the government finds, and then discusses it with the Doctor.
Suppose…
What if, instead of jumping to the 1800s, Jack jumped to the late 20th century? Just a couple of years off?
What if Torchwood found him? And “kept” him, much like they planned to “keep” the Doctor around?
What if, after it was destroyed, the British Government got this guy who knew so much about aliens (and about the Doctor), and put him in charge of getting the Torchwood Institute up and running again?
What if (instead of taking the actress and creating a whole new character with the same name) Dr Sato, who had only recently started learning about aliens, was on his new team?
What if we got to see Jack start to realise that he couldn’t die?
What if we got to find out about those two missing years in his memory?
What if we got to watch him – initially self-serving and only running Torchwood because he has to – gradually become a hero?
…just a thought.
I’ve decided that one of the main problems with Torchwood is that it’s trying to be Angel, when it should be trying to be Going Postal.
In an episode of Doctor Who called The Empty Child, Steven Moffat created this wonderful new character. He was a con-man, who used to work for the Time Agency, until he woke up one morning and found that they’d stolen two years of his memory.
…that’s a pretty decent starting point for a character, really.
You’ve got a fun angle, with someone who’s basically out for himself, an intriguing history, and the possibility that he might become a hero.
And then Russell T Davis decided he wanted to make a spin-off show.
In fact, he basically wanted to make his very own version of Angel.
And instead of using this ready-made character he had (con-man, time agent, memory stolen), he wanted a different backstory. A more angsty and heroic backstory.
So he took Jack Harkness and gave him another century worth of story (can’t die, stuck on the planet, lost his brother).
And then he put Jack in the middle of Torchwood, and let him be heroic and angsty.
The problem is, it doesn’t really work.
On Angel, we had a character we’d known for three years, whose backstory we’d known for three years, starting a detective agency (and not being all that good at it, to start with), with a crew who initially didn’t trust him, and tended to argue when he made bad decisions.
On Torchwood, we had a character we’d known for five episodes, whose backstory had completely changed, already having run his own Cardiff-based branch of Torchwood for several years, with a crew who knew nothing about him, and yet still (for some reason) went along with every decision he made, even when he gave them no explanation whatsoever. And the few times they tried going against him, they were consistently proven to be wrong (because Jack is always right).
Angel was dark and brooding because he’d spent 150 years horribly slaughtering people.
Jack was dark and angsty because he… couldn’t die. And that was upsetting.
Angel’s crew were great at their job because they never gave up, and they kept fighting even when everyone around them (the police, ordinary people, evil lawyers, ex-girlfriends) was against them.
Jack’s crew were great at their job because they had super-cool gadgets, and if anyone tried to go up against them, they’d flash their TORCHWOOD badges at the police, and wipe the memories of the rest.
Plus, we didn’t get to see Jack change, from con-man to hero. We were just told that he had. And were supposed to take the show’s word for it that he had, and was now clearly heroic and wise.
It didn’t really work all that well.
Which is a pity, really, because the show had so much potential.
What it should have done, instead of trying to be Angel, was try to be Going Postal.
Going Postal is a Discworld novel.
It stars a rather charming con-man (sound familiar?) who is put in charge of the postal service, and told (on pain of lots of pain and then possibly death) to get it running again.
It’s rather fun.
And it occurred to me today that, really, they had the potential to create this brilliant show.
A show that people wouldn’t roll their eyes at and say, “Well, that’s just Torchwood. At least it’s kind of fun, right?”
At the end of Doctor Who season 1, Jack is altered so that he can’t die, and left in space, several millennia away from the present day. (He then jumps to present-day Earth – landing 100 years before he planned to – in the hopes of finding the Doctor again.)
At the end of Doctor Who season 2, the Torchwood Institute almost accidentally ends the world – and then is destroyed.
Five episodes into season 1, there’s a doctor (Dr Sato) who examines the “alien” the government finds, and then discusses it with the Doctor.
Suppose…
What if, instead of jumping to the 1800s, Jack jumped to the late 20th century? Just a couple of years off?
What if Torchwood found him? And “kept” him, much like they planned to “keep” the Doctor around?
What if, after it was destroyed, the British Government got this guy who knew so much about aliens (and about the Doctor), and put him in charge of getting the Torchwood Institute up and running again?
What if (instead of taking the actress and creating a whole new character with the same name) Dr Sato, who had only recently started learning about aliens, was on his new team?
What if we got to see Jack start to realise that he couldn’t die?
What if we got to find out about those two missing years in his memory?
What if we got to watch him – initially self-serving and only running Torchwood because he has to – gradually become a hero?
…just a thought.
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no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 05:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 05:35 am (UTC)Read a synopsis and lots of discussion, yes.
I'm not sure whether I'm in favour or not...
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 06:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 06:54 am (UTC)I've also heard that it's out of character, in character, really brilliant, completely hopeless, shows that Jack never has any good plans, is wonderfully tragic, is overly tragic, is over-done, is understated, is incredibly subtle and skillfully written, and is totally stupid and not making use of what was already established.
So there's quite a bit of variance there. ;)
As it is, I haven't really been impressed with the first two seasons, and my favourite character (Tosh) being dead, I'm not too interested in watching Jack be angsty and dramatic some more.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 07:32 am (UTC)I can't speak highly enough of it.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:39 am (UTC)Well look on it as a new (ADULT!) show, but with the same characters. Also it is just so shiny, y'know? It broke my heart, but I'm still sat here going 'Eat your heart out Joss!'
Oh! It's like the opposite of s8 - that is, imagine that S1&2 of TW is 'season 8' and S3 is BtVS proper. (Except shorter, and properly grown-up.) That should give you an idea of the difference.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 11:47 am (UTC)No, it's still not top-notch quality, but it's a giant leap in the right direction.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:01 pm (UTC)Heh. Good point.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:32 am (UTC)Also, I agree with you 100%.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:43 am (UTC)I should also point out, maybe, that I *loved* Torchwood-that-was, crack and all.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:49 am (UTC)But as for season 3! Dear god I never dreamed they'd come up with something like that in a thousand years. *g*
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:51 am (UTC)I KNOW! I sat watching Day 1 with my jaw dropping further and further down. And then it just kept on going with the awesome. (I thought up a neat analogy above, btw, that I think you'd like. *g*)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 09:12 am (UTC)TW 3 was great TV in the vein of old British Sci-Fi greats such as Quatermass.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 06:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 06:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 09:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 09:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 10:05 pm (UTC)dra⋅ma
–noun
1. a composition in prose or verse presenting in dialogue or pantomime a story involving conflict or contrast of character, esp. one intended to be acted on the stage; a play.
2. the branch of literature having such compositions as its subject; dramatic art or representation.
3. the art dealing with the writing and production of plays.
4. any situation or series of events having vivid, emotional, conflicting, or striking interest or results: the drama of a murder trial.
5. the quality of being dramatic.
science fiction
n. A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.
And just for shits and giggles:
fan⋅ta⋅sy
–noun
1. imagination, esp. when extravagant and unrestrained.
2. the forming of mental images, esp. wondrous or strange fancies; imaginative conceptualizing.
3. a mental image, esp. when unreal or fantastic; vision: a nightmare fantasy.
4. Psychology. an imagined or conjured up sequence fulfilling a psychological need; daydream.
5. a hallucination.
6. a supposition based on no solid foundation; visionary idea; illusion: dreams of Utopias and similar fantasies.
7. caprice; whim.
8. an ingenious or fanciful thought, design, or invention.
9. Also, fantasia. Literature. an imaginative or fanciful work, esp. one dealing with supernatural or unnatural events or characters: The stories of Poe are fantasies of horror.
Drama tends to be realistic. Science fiction and Fantasy are not.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 10:16 pm (UTC)Hell, Forbidden Planet was just The Tempest dressed up. A writer worth his salt sees past the sci fi trappings and looks into the bare bones of the story underneath it all.
TW was sci fi by the very nature of the story it was telling.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 10:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 10:06 pm (UTC)If you would like to borrow a later book, I probably have it...
no subject
Date: 2009-08-17 04:07 am (UTC)Just realised that I have NO idea where I was up to.
I've read up to Vimes' son being born, but not anything beyond that.
I've read (and love) The Truth, but haven't read 'Going Postal' (which sounds similar).
I read one about the witches where Magrat had a baby and Agnes was flirting with vampires.
Uh...
Death and Susan. Lessee... surely there ought to be one in that category - can't remember anything post-'Hogfather', though.
Rincewind? Had just about done his dash, I think. But surely there's another land to visit...
...or maybe Prtchett's actually gone and invented a new category or something...no subject
Date: 2009-08-17 10:23 pm (UTC)Next off the rank is Monstrous Regiment, followed by Going Postal, Thud, and Making Money.
...and I take it you haven't read any of the Tiffany Aching books?
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 11:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 01:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 04:30 pm (UTC)Your Torchwood definitely sounds superior. Instead of going WELL LET'S HAVE A LEADING MAN WITH TONS OF ANGST, it goes, "let's have JACK". Which was what I wanted, because I've seen all that angst before, done better.
(For what we do have, I think Children of Earth does do a good job with it. It balances who Jack used to be with who he is, and made me feel for him for the first time in quite a while. Still, not what I'd have preferred.)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 06:21 pm (UTC)And TW is so visibly trying to be Joss-like it hurts sometimes. Parading around killing off your characters doesn't work when you don't actually have enough characters left for a show...
(Although I haven't watched it myself, Kitty linked me to some CoE downloads if you'd like me to send them to you.)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 06:30 pm (UTC)All the best.
Lori
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 07:30 pm (UTC)Recently, I re-watched Exit Wounds, and it really is hard to believe it's the same show.
I still love Captain John, though.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 10:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 06:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:46 pm (UTC)You may hate CoE - a lot of people did - but you can't truly get the flavour of it through synopses and reviews. It has to be seen, for good or ill.
As Lily said, I have access to some d/ls if you fancy them. :)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 10:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 05:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 02:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 08:05 pm (UTC)I also agree with the folks that say you should watch Children of Earth. Unlike many who suggested you watch it yourself, I did not think it was very well written. Exciting to watch, yes, but that speaks more for the direction than the writing. There's an initial sequence, for example, where both Torchwood and the government are defining what's going on with the kids, and the show cuts back and forth between the two groups of people seamlessly; it's almost as if they're finishing each other's sentences. It's great to watch!
The writing, though, I liked much less. Among other things, I thought many of the characterizations were off (such as Ianto being written on Day 1 with the emotional maturity of a teen-aged girl), and that much of the show relegated the supposed stars to supporting roles. I also thought the plot was too riddled with holes, and was sad that after all the drama of what happened around the world, "6 months later" we saw a glimpse of Jack's emotional state but no indication of how the world was reacting to the extreme events and government actions.
But until you watch it, you don't know whether you'll feel like the folks who think it was the best thing since sliced bread, or like the folks who agree it was exciting but ultimately unsatisfying, or whether you just won't like it at all. You owe it to yourself to find out!