Tragic and Doomed

[deird_lj]

I think I've finally figured out why I don't like Aragorn and Arwen ending up together:

They're Buffy and Angel.


Seriously!

They're a couple who meet as teenagers well, when one of them is a teenager and the other one is already really old but immortal and seemingly young, and who promptly fall into an epic love story even though they're two completely different species, and get to stand around looking all tragic and doomed and heartbroken because they will forever be parted...

...and then they get married and live happily ever after.


Is it me, or is that sort of missing the point?


Buffy/Angel? Love it. Mostly. But the whole big idea behind their relationship is that it's tragic and doomed and heartbreaking, and they'll never end up together, and it's so beautiful and doomed and... doomed...


Aragorn and Arwen have a clear purpose - to be the Buffy-and-Angel, and look longingly into each other's eyes for a while before they go off and live their respective lives. That's how it's supposed to work! Having them end up together just doesn't fit.


(Which is all a long drawn-out way of saying: Aragorn/Eowyn 4eva! Woo!)

Comments

[elisi]

Hmmm. Well it's certainly a point, except they don't live happily ever after. I mean, they live happily for a very long time, but he is mortal and she's not. And once he's dead all of the other elves have long since left and she's stuck.

Also, of course, they're a re-play of Beren/Luthien. Except Beren/Luthen was seriously awesome, with Luthien being a much more take-charge kinda lady. (It's FOREVER since I read the Silmarillion, bit as far as I remember kicked all kinds of ass!)

Mostly, I don't pay too much attention to A/A. *g* (Although I agree it's a bit much in the films.)

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Except Beren/Luthen was seriously awesome, with Luthien being a much more take-charge kinda lady.

When Tolkien's wife Edith died, he had 'Lúthien' carved on her gravestone under her own name. (And his own gravestone now has 'Beren' on it to match.) Considering that he's often criticised for not having many active women in his stories, I thought it was neat that he made the one based on his own wife the most awesome, ass-kicking and charge-taking person in all of Middle Earth. I mean, she defeated Sauron one-on-one
(well, with the help of her dog) and stood up to Morgoth himself...

[elisi]

I thought it was neat that he made the one based on his own wife the most awesome, ass-kicking and charge-taking person in all of Middle Earth.
Absolutely! They really ought to make a film of Beren and Luthien, although it'd be 90% CGI. Still, incredible love-story w. incredible heroine! (Must say that calling Huan 'a dog' is a little like calling a T-Rex a 'lizard'... *g*)

[ib-stormcaller.livejournal.com]

Um...
Didnt Arwen sacrifice her immortality to stay with Aragorn?
He has an extended life, due to being the direct descendant of Isuldur (sp) so their expected life span would probably have been around the same, no?

[rahirah]

She gave up her place on the last ship departing to the West, and once Aragorn died she basically willed herself to die. But I don't think she gave up her immortality as such; presumably her spirit would return to the Halls of Mandos for reincarnation just as that of any elf who died in Middle Earth would.

[elisi]

But I don't think she gave up her immortality as such; presumably her spirit would return to the Halls of Mandos for reincarnation just as that of any elf who died in Middle Earth would.
No - to quote Elrond when he first finds out that Aragorn is in love with her:

'But there will be no choice before Arwen, my beloved, unless you, Aragorn, Arathron's son, come between us and bring one of us, you or me, to a bitter parting beyond the end of the world.'

Actually, I think this is one of the ways that it works much better than B/A - Angel wants to be human (especially since otherwise he's doomed to hell etc), whereas Arwen has to give up her kind and an immortal life that is only good.

[elisi]

Didnt Arwen sacrifice her immortality to stay with Aragorn?
You are absolutely right! Went and looked it up, and this is what I was thinking of I think:

But Arwen became as a mortal woman, and yet it was not her lot to die until all that she had gained was lost.

[roccondilrinon.livejournal.com]

This.

If you only saw the movies, you might be inclined to think it's a bit too happily-ever-after, but even in the movies Elrond tells Arwen what will happen to her if she chooses to stay: his words are taken with minimal changes from the part of The Return of the King which describes what did in fact happen to her.

[elisi]

his words are taken with minimal changes from the part of The Return of the King which describes what did in fact happen to her.
Indeed. I love that they did that, although I grumbled at the 'seeing vision of her future son and changing her mind'. But then I also grumbled at the part where Gollum made Frodo think that Sam had stolen some of the lembas. I guess they added those parts for the sake of drama, but I'm very much a canon whore... *g*

Um, I think I had a point. I think there are Buffy/Angel parallels - something that's exaggerated in the films - but ultimately they're adults in ways that Buffy and Angel are not, and that stops it from being annoying. (Still a bit boring maybe, but that's something else!)