Cool Characters

[deird_lj]

I saw a discussion about Buffyverse characters the other day, in which someone said they couldn't relate to Faith or Spike because they're "cool".

...at which point everyone else jumped on them and said "What do you mean they're cool? They're not cool really! They're just pretending! It's a defense mechanism!"

Which got me thinking.


Because, if you think about it, there are actually quite a lot of "cool" people in the Buffyverse. They're just... cool in different ways.

For instance...


Cool Kids Who Become Uncool

Cordelia. And Buffy. And Harmony.
All three are really cool at some point during their high school years. Cool without having to think about it. They just are, by virtue of their cool clothes, their cool friends, their cool attitudes, and their general coolness.
All are also rather selfish and ditzy. (Ditsy? Ditzy? Spelling, anyone?)

...and then they stop being cool. And life gets much more complicated - and much more interesting.


Cool As A Cover

This is a category for anyone who starts off as "uncool", and then deliberately sets out to make themselves cool.
People such as Spike. And Willow. And Amy. And possibly Wesley. And (arguably) Faith, even though we never actually saw her in non-cool form.

You could also put Dawn and Andrew in this category - because they certainly try...


Hidden Coolness

This is a special category for Giles. Because he's cool... underneath. It just doesn't emerge very often.


Just That Cool

Gunn. Oz. Illyria.


Dresses Cool

Angel, with the black coats and carefully moussed hair. Riley, with the blackops army gear. Wesley in the motorbike leathers.
They're all dressed as if they should be the coolest people ever - but really, they're all pretty much dorks.


Really NOT Cool

Xander. And Fred.



And you know, if I think about it, there's all this other stuff too. Angel, for instance, is instantly marked out by Cordelia and Buffy as really cool (certainly a lot cooler than all the other guys around the place). Fred might not be cool, but according to Harmony her love life is getting gossiped about by everyone. And Anya manages to get into the cool crowd very fast - when she wants to.


So, I guess my question is, what makes you say that someone is "really" cool, as opposed to just pretending?
Because I'd say that Spike is, in fact, authentically cool. What started out as a disguise became an entire attitude.

I'd tend to say that just about all the characters are authentically cool... at one point or another. They're just not statically stuck in coolness.


...thoughts?

Comments

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I don't know if I'd put Faith in the same category as "formerly uncool acting cool". I think Faith puts on a front of bravado at times to hide her vulnerability. But it's different from creating a new persona, as Spike and Willow did. With Faith, it's more of an immediate defense mechanism. Spike and Willow...it's a bit more involved and entangles more with their personality.

And somehow, I keep thinking of Willow's line to Xander in FFL: "I think you're cool..."

[angearia.livejournal.com]

And somehow, I keep thinking of Willow's line to Xander in FFL: "I think you're cool..."

Aw, Willow. One of your best moments ever. I love Xander & Willow friendship.


Also to deird1, pretty sure it's "ditzy" as in "she was a complete ditz." "Dits" sounds like the plural of "dit" - hee!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yes. I agree. That's probably why I can relate to Spike better than to Faith (yes, I was one of the ones who thought Faith was too cool...). With Spike and Willow, it's so obviously a front, and with Faith, it doesn't seem that way to me. But that is, of course, my opinion. YMMV.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

And somehow, I keep thinking of Willow's line to Xander in FFL: "I think you're cool..."

Awww! I think so too, Willow!

[elisi]

No thoughts, just agreeing wholeheartedly with your 'Just That Cool' list! :)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Me, too! For some reason, it made me flail with delight!

[brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I think Dawn and Andrew need another category, which is also Xander in high school (Trying Too Hard to Be Cool). We have Oz's word on this, after all.

It's odd that Tara and Giles, who are probably the most centred characters we see, aren't cool. But they are also not uncool (dorky, often, but not uncool). It's possible that, as a hugely uncool person myself, I'm just not great at defining coolness. But we seem to agree on the characters.

I used to be intimidated by the idea of writing both Faith and Spike in particular, but now I've started they come a lot more easily than some. The tension between personas is always fun to play with.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I'd rather say that character's coolness often depends on Joss' whimsy. Xander is cool in Halloween, in The Zeppo, in s8. Fred is cool in the beginning of AHITW, brandishing a flame-thrower.

Faith, even though we never actually saw her in non-cool form.

But we often see her lying in a bed, bleeding, dying, beaten, unconscious, etc.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

And you know, if I think about it, there's all this other stuff too. Angel, for instance, is instantly marked out by Cordelia and Buffy as really cool (certainly a lot cooler than all the other guys around the place).

And yet he loves Barry Manilow and (apparently) sideburns. Angel has secret uncool. :)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I'd disagree with Fred being "really not that cool." Certainly she starts out that way (back in the halcyon days when she was crazy and I adored her), but by S5? Everybody loves her. Everybody. So she moves out of the "really not that cool" category...but without it ever being "cool as cover."

Also, anyone who reminds me of how dorky Angel really is deserves massive love. I love dorky!Angel. Almost as much as I love petty!Angel.

But I have no thinky thoughts on your actual question. Sorry!

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

I actually think Fred is Geek Girl Cool. S3-S5.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I think you are correct.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Heh. Picture her at a sci-fi/anime/gaming/whatever convention. She would be flocked with geeky fanboys. Cute, science smart, computer smart, glasses. She's the epitome of Geek Girl Cool.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Oooooo! I love this question! Partly because I believe that absolutely everybody is uncool on the inside. Every beautiful woman thinks mainly of the flaws she wishes she could change. I had this epiphany watching Les Blank's Gap-Toothed Women, a fabulous documentary that talked to women from all walks of life, including Lauren Hutton (former super-model) and they all had very similar self-images. It's weird and wacky.

Coolness is what results when you don't seem to care what other people think, but are aware enough to know what that is (early Cordy!). So Xander cares too much, and Fred isn't that interested. Now that I am older, I think Fred's brand is the actual coolest, because she follows her interests, and what could be cooler than that? Except Giles, of course. I think he's pretty much lost his cool by Season 7, however.

However, I would argue that Spike and Faith are just about as cool as Gunn and Oz (who is also cool in his temperament, unlike the others), because they are aware of what it takes to be cool, and make the effort, all the while making it look effortless. More or less. Of course it's a cover. It's always a cover. Every teenager on the planet is trying to figure out the right amount of awareness/aloofness that will get them there. It's just like Jane Austen out there!

I don't think that popularity is the same as coolness. Harmony would never be cool. Like Xander, she cares too much.

[lavastar.livejournal.com]

Mmmm. Cool is too variable a word, honestly - there are the people other people think are cool (so popular), and there are the people who are awesome and therefore cool to me. I dunno.

[next_to_normal]

Cool is too variable a word, honestly

Word. I saw that argument about Faith being too cool, and I thought, "What does that even mean?" I certainly have trouble connecting with Faith, but I don't think it's the coolness factor that's the problem.

There are definitely different types of cool - and with a TV show, you have the additional complication of people who are cool according to the other characters (Cordelia in S1, Faith when she first shows up) vs. characters who are considered cool by the audience, but maybe not the other characters (Giles, or Faith after she goes bad).

[deird1]

I guess that was sort of my point - there are so many different ways you can define "cool", and each definition will end up with a different set of characters being considered cool.

It's a bit of a useless word, really...

[next_to_normal]

It is - which makes me wonder what's really meant when Faith is called "too cool" to be likable.

[lavastar.livejournal.com]

This reminds me of Xander trying to figure out cool with Oz in the lunch line. :D

[lavastar.livejournal.com]

Yup, agreed.

[rahirah]

I think Spike is a case of cover-cool becoming authentic cool with time - but Spike doesn't realize it. Oh, yeah, he talks a good "I'm so cool" game, but deep, deep down, there's still a part of him which is unalterably convinced he's uncool.

[klme.livejournal.com]

ditzy

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I think with both Angel and Spike there are historical aspects to be brought in. I don't think that either of them would think in terms of "coolness".

Angel may have seen himself, in his human form, as a rebel, not conforming to the standards of his time. With his soul, he might see this as a way he got into trouble and attracted Darla's attention, so now fights against it, but the deep seated rebel comes out every so often.

With Spike, in his human form, he was a conformist of his time, living my strict Victorian standards, so in becoming a vampire, rebels against those standards.

So with Angel the human and demon are both rebels, but the soul is not.

With Spike, the human is conformist, but the demon is a rebel. When he gets his soul back, it might see the comformist as the reason he got into trouble, so embraces the rebel.

In summary, I do not think that either of them think in terms of 'Cool', but in modern times, with both have kept up with, know what it means. Angel tries to reject it, while Spike embraces it.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

I don't see "cool" as how a person looks and acts -mostly those who act like badass or throw in a couple of sarcastic remarks are considered cool. To me "cool" is a person who is okay with who they are, don't care what others think, and don't try to pretend to be someone else.

"Cool" is Fred, Anya, and Oz to me.

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

I think you may be confusing cool with popular. Cordelia, Harm and Buffy were popular--not cool.

Cool would be Giles, as you said (understated cool), Spike, Faith, Gunn, Illyria and...that's it. Angel dresses cool, true, but that's more a mysterious vibe. Riley dressed like a secret agent, er, cause he was one, but secret agents don't have to dress a certain way to be cool--they just are, and he wasn't. At all. Wesley tried to dress bad ass, which is cool, but he was still a dork (much like Andrew and that Spike-ish duster). When he wasn't trying--when he fell into a grumpy pants hole of depression of being abandoned by all his friends--that's when he became authentically cool.

Dawn tries to be more adult, but I'm not sure she actually tried to be cool. Either way, she's still a spaz--just older.

And while Spike may have a facade at times, the personality of Spike is genuine, and authentically cool.

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

Also, Oz was cool. A man of few words added mystery, and being and a band is almost default cool. (Almost, but not necessarily. I mean, when Xander got that car, he was still a dork...but I didn't like him any less :D)

And where was this argument? I want to see it :(

[kerkevik.livejournal.com]

I'd stick Tara in the really NOT cool category.

Which is a little ironic, because I get the feeling that Willow thought that Tara made her 'look' cool, as did her mom... in a grit-your-teeth-at-your-daughter's-political-statement-phase kid of way.

:-)

Still under Willow & Tara's spell,
Ray.